| Handmaids Tale 10:38 - Mar 31 with 2107 views | saint901 |
I don't know if you've read the book or seen the TV series but basically it's set in a world in which the birth rate has collapsed - it's hinted that this is because humans have poisoned the environment with pollution - and as a result economic activity is stalled and living standards - everywhere - are falling. Using this crisis as a catalyst a group of religious fundamentalists blow up the capital building in Washington DC during a full senate session and in the resulting power vacuum, assume control. Their policy is to take US society back to a time where men ruled the house/world, women are property, dissent from the very strict old testament are punishable by death. The US is also trying to evangelise other countries - Canada in particular - and as a result a series of wars/skirmishes are ongoing. (It's again hinted that one of these is a civil war with the more liberal western seaboard of the US).
Whilst I do not see the religious aspect front and centre of the USA that Trump and his cultists wish to achieve (and his copy cats in Europe aspire to) there are some parallels.
The press is regulated, suppressed; going off message brings exclusion and exile (or worse); dissenters are attacked physically and vocally; outside influences are disregarded and often attacked. There is an elite group (who enjoy many freedoms and pleasures denied others) but the rest of the population is very tightly regulated and forced into submission. There are no Judges or law courts - the law is an extension of the executive. There is no separation of powers, just the application of the religious doctrine, as interpreted by a powerful cabal of "elders".
There is of course a resistance and in this case it's one led by a woman who is separated from her child (given to a childless member of the elite) and who is fighting to get that child back and in so doing exposes flaws and hypocrisy and corruption at the heart of the US ruling elite.
They are great books. The TV show is good (but not as good as the books).
Stripped of the religious aspect, the society described could easily be one to which the US under Felon and crew are heading, especially if he decides that he can ignore the constitution and run for a third term. Authoritarian, intolerant, used to protect and increase the power and wealth of the elite, opposition destroyed by law and physical force.
In the book, the result of the usurping of power in the US is that they are internationally isolated, have internal dissent and are rotting from within as their basis of power (the old testament) is increasingly shown to be unacceptable.
The author, Margaret Attwood, a Canadian so Felon would not regard her as worth anything, uses her make believe world to take a swing at many issues. Most of the central and pivotal characters are female and the make characters are shown as weak, hypocritical, vain, corrupt, cowardly.
Without giving away the ending, ultimately the society collapses under the weight of its own flaws.
I think that I have to see the Felon's USA in the same way. Bear with it. Understand that most people think its too deeply wrong to survive, trust that there remain good Americans, in a few years hopefully the Felon will be broken and serving whatever penance the universe decrees. |  | | |  |
| Handmaids Tale on 11:34 - Mar 31 with 1833 views | kentsouthampton |
It could have been written with Trump and his Christian fundamentalist maga nutters in mind. |  | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 12:25 - Mar 31 with 1789 views | saint901 |
The Felon's assumption of any religion - Christianity or any other - is just a false flag designed to appeal to a certain type of voter, already blinded by religion.
The US Constitution is very clear - there is a separation of Church and State. This was partly to allow people who are religious to practice their particular brand without interference from the law but also because the founding fathers had concerns that some religions did not recognise some of the principles upon which the constitution was based.
https://constitutioncenter.org/education/constitution-101-curriculum?gad_source=
I think however that religion (or its absence) is not the point here. The point is that a fundamentalist and therefore limited approach to government and society is one which can survive an educated electorate only by the application of force.
As I said I hope that there are enough good Americans from whom a decent leader can emerge - one who is tolerant and recognises that survival of nations in today's world needs co-operation and not conflict and economic or shooting wars. | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 17:38 - Mar 31 with 1694 views | dirk_doone |
Unfortunately, the very real history of the 1930s is even more prescient.
If men could learn from history, what lessons it might teach us. But passion
and party blind our eyes, and the light which experience gives us is a lantern on
the stern, which shines only on the waves behind us. Samuel Taylor Coleridge [Post edited 31 Mar 17:39]
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| Handmaids Tale on 19:55 - Mar 31 with 1632 views | Jellybaby |
Are you having an epiphany 901?
The world is run by psychopathic oligarchs who are leading us into a dystopian future. Most swallowed the Covid totalitarian scam, so now you get new world order via Trump's funders, Musk and Peter Theil etc who will bring us a technocratic future and all that that entails.
It is pointless looking for better leaders, as they are all in the same club. If the heat gets too much on Trump, the next "assassination" attempt" will be for "real" and he will get a quick makeover and be retired off to some sun kissed island to see out his days. J D Vance is lined up - he was hand picked by Theil and despite comparing Trump to Hitler gets picked as his running mate - did he have a change of heart? No, they're just reading from a script. It's theatre, which is why The Epstein files won't be released and nothing changes.
You thought it was better under the senile child stroking Biden? It wasn,t better, it was just differently bad. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss - don't get fooled again. | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Handmaids Tale on 21:41 - Mar 31 with 1565 views | DorsetIan |
| Handmaids Tale on 19:55 - Mar 31 by Jellybaby |
Are you having an epiphany 901?
The world is run by psychopathic oligarchs who are leading us into a dystopian future. Most swallowed the Covid totalitarian scam, so now you get new world order via Trump's funders, Musk and Peter Theil etc who will bring us a technocratic future and all that that entails.
It is pointless looking for better leaders, as they are all in the same club. If the heat gets too much on Trump, the next "assassination" attempt" will be for "real" and he will get a quick makeover and be retired off to some sun kissed island to see out his days. J D Vance is lined up - he was hand picked by Theil and despite comparing Trump to Hitler gets picked as his running mate - did he have a change of heart? No, they're just reading from a script. It's theatre, which is why The Epstein files won't be released and nothing changes.
You thought it was better under the senile child stroking Biden? It wasn,t better, it was just differently bad. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss - don't get fooled again. |
Are you an anarchist Jellyton?
I am not quite sure where your nihilistic conclusions lead. 'They're all as bad as each other'...so what's the answer, politically speaking: Revolution, Class War, Survivalism ??? | |
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| Handmaids Tale on 23:17 - Mar 31 with 1525 views | Jellybaby |
| Handmaids Tale on 21:41 - Mar 31 by DorsetIan |
Are you an anarchist Jellyton?
I am not quite sure where your nihilistic conclusions lead. 'They're all as bad as each other'...so what's the answer, politically speaking: Revolution, Class War, Survivalism ??? |
You have asked me this question before Ian and I will give the same answer - no I am not an anarchist, although at some point anarchy could be preferable to tyranny - it would certainly be a lot cheaper! But it would always run the risk of turning back in to tyrannical government by degrees or being controlled by Narcos type gangs.
We are clearly witnessing a move to neo feudalism where wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few again. I don't see that as nihilistic, it's just realistic. Politically speaking its hard to know a way out other than encouraging those around you to see the battle is not left/right, it's up/down and always has been. The collective will of the people can resist and overturn actions of government as in the Poll tax.
What I am convinced about is this is not sorted through our present 2 party political system, which just enables the oligarchic system. If you want to stand as an independent to clean up the mess, you have my vote Ian. | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Handmaids Tale on 08:33 - Apr 1 with 1397 views | saint901 |
I think Mr Jelly, that noting the facts and reacting to them is hardly an "epiphany".
Unlike you because I see no facts supporting the idea of a shadowy "elite" (I've given up asking exactly who these people are because nobody knows or nobody is willing to say) directing the Felon and his cabal of idiots, I do not believe in today's favourite conspiracy.
The Democrats failed in the last two cycles to find a leader who could mean something to the majority of voters. The Republicans saw this and prostituted themselves to every influencer they could find from the religious to the Tate loving rednecks to every conspiracy theorist they could find. Their vote base is a demographers nightmare and almost impossible to keep together over the cycle.
I also think that the Felon cares only for personal reputation. Yes he is easily swayed and reacts like a child if provoked, but ultimately he craves recognition because he knows he is a failure.
But adults look for facts and try to interpret them. They don't invent facts or make assumptions which are plainly different from the facts. | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 10:48 - Apr 1 with 1319 views | DorsetIan |
| Handmaids Tale on 23:17 - Mar 31 by Jellybaby |
You have asked me this question before Ian and I will give the same answer - no I am not an anarchist, although at some point anarchy could be preferable to tyranny - it would certainly be a lot cheaper! But it would always run the risk of turning back in to tyrannical government by degrees or being controlled by Narcos type gangs.
We are clearly witnessing a move to neo feudalism where wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few again. I don't see that as nihilistic, it's just realistic. Politically speaking its hard to know a way out other than encouraging those around you to see the battle is not left/right, it's up/down and always has been. The collective will of the people can resist and overturn actions of government as in the Poll tax.
What I am convinced about is this is not sorted through our present 2 party political system, which just enables the oligarchic system. If you want to stand as an independent to clean up the mess, you have my vote Ian. |
In all seriousness, that sounds like a Marxist perspective to me. By 'up/down' I take it you mean different classes? Haves and have nots; those who control the means of production and those who don't? | |
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| Handmaids Tale on 12:41 - Apr 1 with 1269 views | saint901 |
The concentration of wealth into the hands of a relative few is not new, not specific to the last few hundred years nor probably ever. Human nature dictates that if you have opportunity to acquire more resources than your neighbour, then you do that.
There can be many reasons or excuses for that behaviour but it's ingrained as a means of providing security against hunger, enemies, adverse nature, etc.
I recall reading a paper many years ago which it speculated that all the money in the UK was distributed evenly on Day 1 of Year 1, it would be consolidated into a small percentage of hands within a decade.
We also see communist regimes fail because some people always want to be more equal than others.
We also see many people dabble in politics and perhaps become single issue dictators (think Farage) and can guess that they do not have what it takes to actually run a country.
Finally, the great unwashed masses can throw a hero into power from time to time but without the education, the political nous or a willingness to be a dictator, they will crash and burn.
The dream/nightmare of the "lower classes" rising and gaining power would end in anarchy and disaster for untold millions. | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 16:18 - Apr 1 with 1201 views | dirk_doone |
Deep Throat was better | |
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| Handmaids Tale on 16:23 - Apr 1 with 1185 views | franniesTache |
| Handmaids Tale on 10:48 - Apr 1 by DorsetIan |
In all seriousness, that sounds like a Marxist perspective to me. By 'up/down' I take it you mean different classes? Haves and have nots; those who control the means of production and those who don't? |
Direct democracy organised around class, and in contravention to power structures is 100% marxist/anarchist, which surprises me from Jelly but fair play |  | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 19:36 - Apr 1 with 1118 views | Jellybaby |
| Handmaids Tale on 08:33 - Apr 1 by saint901 |
I think Mr Jelly, that noting the facts and reacting to them is hardly an "epiphany".
Unlike you because I see no facts supporting the idea of a shadowy "elite" (I've given up asking exactly who these people are because nobody knows or nobody is willing to say) directing the Felon and his cabal of idiots, I do not believe in today's favourite conspiracy.
The Democrats failed in the last two cycles to find a leader who could mean something to the majority of voters. The Republicans saw this and prostituted themselves to every influencer they could find from the religious to the Tate loving rednecks to every conspiracy theorist they could find. Their vote base is a demographers nightmare and almost impossible to keep together over the cycle.
I also think that the Felon cares only for personal reputation. Yes he is easily swayed and reacts like a child if provoked, but ultimately he craves recognition because he knows he is a failure.
But adults look for facts and try to interpret them. They don't invent facts or make assumptions which are plainly different from the facts. |
You see no facts supporting a shadowy Elite you say so you think that Sleepy Joe and now Trump have been running things - you really do have a cartoonish take on the world 901.
The good news for you is Trump is controlled by others he may be allowed to have his head to promote the illusion of democracy, but it is merely a simulation and once the people cry enough, he will exit stage left having served his purpose and it will swing back to the democrats and all will be well again in your life - rest easy my friend, sleep well. | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Handmaids Tale on 19:49 - Apr 1 with 1107 views | Jellybaby |
| Handmaids Tale on 10:48 - Apr 1 by DorsetIan |
In all seriousness, that sounds like a Marxist perspective to me. By 'up/down' I take it you mean different classes? Haves and have nots; those who control the means of production and those who don't? |
I only see two classes - the Elites who own and control pretty much everything and the rest of us - some of whom may be very wealthy and some not, so not Marxist, as I am not against capitalism per se, but I am opposed to global capitalists, particularly their cynical use of disaster capitalism. Also not keen on their Eugenics and transhumanists views.
Are you still pinning all your hopes on 2 party democracy? | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Handmaids Tale on 20:26 - Apr 1 with 1081 views | DorsetIan |
| Handmaids Tale on 19:49 - Apr 1 by Jellybaby |
I only see two classes - the Elites who own and control pretty much everything and the rest of us - some of whom may be very wealthy and some not, so not Marxist, as I am not against capitalism per se, but I am opposed to global capitalists, particularly their cynical use of disaster capitalism. Also not keen on their Eugenics and transhumanists views.
Are you still pinning all your hopes on 2 party democracy? |
But as Marx said, all capitalism involves the separate of the workers from those who own and control the means of production, and is therefore both necessarily exploitative and alienating.
It is also a very Marxist perspective to see all wars as wars of the ruling class.
I do pin my hopes on liberal democracy, yes. It has kept the peace in Europe for an unprecedented length of time and I would much rather have the right to get rid of my rulers than not, even if the choice of alternatives is often very limited. The rules of law, the independence of the judiciary, the separation of powers, the jury system, the free press and the right to vote our wrong'uns all work for me. | |
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| Handmaids Tale on 08:11 - Apr 2 with 976 views | mushinexile |
ellybaby, I'd buy you a tinfoil hat but tariffs.... | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 12:28 - Apr 2 with 899 views | Jellybaby |
| Handmaids Tale on 08:11 - Apr 2 by mushinexile |
ellybaby, I'd buy you a tinfoil hat but tariffs.... |
Thanks Mush, but I already have one and made in the UK. | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Handmaids Tale on 14:29 - Apr 2 with 838 views | saint901 |
Please tell me who is controlling the Felon - with proof. | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 14:44 - Apr 2 with 825 views | franniesTache |
| Handmaids Tale on 14:29 - Apr 2 by saint901 |
Please tell me who is controlling the Felon - with proof. |
Penelope Keith, and the proof is here shooting of JFK of course | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 17:27 - Apr 2 with 753 views | Jellybaby |
| Handmaids Tale on 14:44 - Apr 2 by franniesTache |
Penelope Keith, and the proof is here shooting of JFK of course |
Well, she is minted, twenty twenty vision and good with a gun, I think you've rumbled her. | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Handmaids Tale on 17:32 - Apr 2 with 749 views | Jellybaby |
| Handmaids Tale on 14:29 - Apr 2 by saint901 |
Please tell me who is controlling the Felon - with proof. |
If only I had their name and address to hand, you would belive me instantly - oh shucks.
Whilst I'm looking can you give me proof that Trump can run his own life, yet alone the western world?
Meet you back here in half an hour. | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Handmaids Tale on 08:32 - Apr 3 with 603 views | saint901 |
| Handmaids Tale on 17:32 - Apr 2 by Jellybaby |
If only I had their name and address to hand, you would belive me instantly - oh shucks.
Whilst I'm looking can you give me proof that Trump can run his own life, yet alone the western world?
Meet you back here in half an hour. |
With the proof?
No - thought not. | | | |
| Handmaids Tale on 19:59 - Apr 3 with 414 views | Jellybaby |
| Handmaids Tale on 08:32 - Apr 3 by saint901 |
With the proof?
No - thought not. |
And your proof that Trump or Biden (haha) could run that mighty nation?
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws"
This is kindergarten stuff 901. If the moneymen don't want Trump in then he will no longer be in power, if they have a job for him to do, he will stay in. When he has done it he will go. He may or may not be stupid - it's irrelevant because he's an actor reading from a script. | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Handmaids Tale on 20:10 - Apr 3 with 405 views | DorsetIan |
| Handmaids Tale on 19:59 - Apr 3 by Jellybaby |
And your proof that Trump or Biden (haha) could run that mighty nation?
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws"
This is kindergarten stuff 901. If the moneymen don't want Trump in then he will no longer be in power, if they have a job for him to do, he will stay in. When he has done it he will go. He may or may not be stupid - it's irrelevant because he's an actor reading from a script. |
But you can't tell us whose script he's reading from.
Have you heard of Okham's Razor? Why would you posit that someone else is writing the script when it entirely consistent with his personality and statements over many years, that Trump is writing it.
I guess by your logic, the personalities of Churchill, Stalin, Hitler, Montgomery, Eisenhower, Marshall, were all irrelevent - puppets all of them - in the history of WW2 ?? | |
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